People (Fair Warning: Thread Contents Could Someday Appear on the Front Page.)

[Jake]

I thought about sticking this in the Random Thoughts and Anecdotes thread, but ended up deciding to create a new thread instead.  In my imaginary, idealized version of what this thread will eventually be, I see it as a kind of "Tales from an Office Building" type thing with all of us as authors.  I could see a lot of hawkin's commuting stories fitting in well here; same goes for the old "getting his chicken" story from Hatrack.

That said, I expect that this will veer off in some unexpected direction and then sink off the first page unmourned, forgotten until Jesse decides to annoy Mike with it three years from now.

Nah. Actually, if nothing else I'll probably post in it whenever I have an interaction with somebody that I either find funny enough to be worth relating or makes me stop and think.

[Jake]

The woman who cleans my teeth is very right-wing, strongly Christian, deeply ignorant, and extremely talkative.  She's also probably the best dental hygienist I've ever gone to.

She was in fine form when I went in for a cleaning this morning.  I generally just sit there and listen (not like you can really do that much else when someone's got their hands in your mouth anyway, but you know) but when she managed to talk about Obama being a Muslim and his pastor being an evil racist in the same sentence, I just had to stop her and ask for a little clarification (plus she happened to be letting me up to spit right at that exact moment).

 

Me (after spitting into the basin): Wait—you just said that he was a Muslim, but you also just said that he goes to church? I’m confused—do you  think he’s a Muslim or a Christian?
Her: He was brought up Muslim.  It’s in his blood.  His father and his mother are both Muslim, and so is he.
Me: But he’s said that he’s a Christian, and he’s been going to Wright’s church for a long time.
Her: It’s a racist church! They teach all kinds of hatred and racism there.  They’re Muslims.
Me: Well, I don’t know what messages are preached there, but…it’s a church. By definition it’s a Christian institution.
Her: He’s a Muslim.
Me: But hasn’t he been going to that church for 20 years or something?
Her: Yep! (said as though that proves her point)
Me: So then…wouldn’t that mean that he’s probably a Christian?
Her: Muslims go to church too.
Me: No they don’t.
Her: Some of them do. 
Me: No, they worship as mosques.  “Church” is a term that only applies to Christian places of worship.
Her: We have people of all denominations in my church.
Me: But they’re all denominations of Christianity, right? Are any of the people who go to your church muslim?
Her: I’ll bet some of them are.
Me: Huh.

 ::cleaning resumes::

 A little later she said that she was very well informed about other religions (I think she was trying to make me feel better about my not understanding how Obama could be a Christian and a Muslim at the same time), because she’d taken classes on them. Three times.  World religions. She said that she “knew a whole lot about Buddhism, Hinduism, and Muslam”.

 Other topics of conversation were:

• Colorado Springs is about as close to paradise as we’re going to get in this country, and it’s because of all the churches there.
• The United States has been a blessed country because it’s been a friend to Israel, and Israel is God’s chosen country. It’s because of our friendship with Israel that the US grew so quickly from 13 colonies to a continent spanning nation, and became so powerful in world affairs.  She was hard at work on my wisdom teeth with something long and pointy when she was talking about that one, so I couldn’t ask for clarification on how it was that that blessing was conferred on us before the state of Israel actually, you know, existed.
• Michelle Obama hates America (and is a “big time Muslim”)
• Jimmy Carter is evil, and it’s all his fault that social security is screwed up. Well, LBJ had a hand in messing it up too, but mostly it’s Carter’s fault. Plus, who does he think he is?
• Anton LeVay is an evil, evil man, but he’ll get his.
• The French are horrible people, and people from “The French parts of Canada” aren’t much better. They hate us, and the only time they’re nice to us is when they want our money. But they aren’t *very* nice to us even then. Plus, they’re very nationalistic (this statement was followed by a long complaint about a friend of hers being treated poorly when she tried to use English to order food at a restaurant in France. Keep in mind that a few cleanings ago she spoke favorably of the restaurant owner who hung a “no English = no food” type sign in the window of his restaurant here in the US)
• We shouldn’t judge others

[The Genuine]

People suck.

[CT]

Ouch.  Multiple times.

[Megan]

Wow. Well, there ya go.

This is a great idea for a thread. I don't know if I'll ever have any stories to add, but I love reading other people's (I love hawkin's people stories in particular).

[ElJay]

*laughing my ass off

[kristyrennt]

• The French are horrible people, and people from “The French parts of Canada” aren’t much better. They hate us, and the only time they’re nice to us is when they want our money. But they aren’t *very* nice to us even then. Plus, they’re very nationalistic (this statement was followed by a long complaint about a friend of hers being treated poorly when she tried to use English to order food at a restaurant in France. Keep in mind that a few cleanings ago she spoke favorably of the restaurant owner who hung a “no English = no food” type sign in the window of his restaurant here in the US)
• We shouldn’t judge others

So really, she just strongly stands behind the "No English, No Food" thing. 

Everywhere on the globe.  Or the universe maybe.

[Jake]

So really, she just strongly stands behind the "No English, No Food" thing. 

Everywhere on the globe.  Or the universe maybe.

  I'll bet that's it!

[hawkin47]

Noemon, that is a fucking awesome interaction with a caricature of a human being. She can't possibly be real. Are you sure you didn't accidentally stumble into a King of The Hill episode? Did the colors seem impossibly vivid?

I sometimes think that people like that exist only to balance out the opposite end of the spectrum. What would the opposite end be? I don't know. But they'd have to be as completely out of touch with reality as that woman was.


And thank you guys for the compliments. 


edit: You know, the more I think about it, the more I think the opposite end of that particular spectrum would have to be those people I've met who refuse to believe that ANYBODY anywhere has any sort of bad intentions. People who think that even those who do genuinely evil things MUST have a good reason for doing so. Complete pacifists, who believe that they can go through life never having a negative interaction with other human beings. Those people strike me, personally, as just as out of touch with reality as your Dental Hygenist.

[smitty]

  That was pretty dang funny, Jake.

I wish I could remember the specifics of the conversation I sat through between our ultra-right accountant, the ultra-right guvmint from outside of LA, and my ultra-ignorant engineer.  While listening to Rush Limbaugh.

I'm ashamed to admit that I can't really consider myself a Right Wing Nut anymore.  I managed to sneak out while they were discussing rounding up all the illegals in LA and shipping them back to Mexico.

Edit:  Hawkin    I had a great visual from Jake being in a King of the Hill episode.

[Megan]

I sometimes think that people like that exist only to balance out the opposite end of the spectrum. What would the opposite end be? I don't know. But they'd have to be as completely out of touch with reality as that woman was.

Maybe members of ELF or PETA?

[hawkin47]

I'm ashamed to admit that I can't really consider myself a Right Wing Nut anymore.  

Damn it, smitty!! You were our token RWNJ! Now how are we going to tell ourselves that we're a fair and balanced forum?
I'm sorry, but you're just going to have to keep pretending. You keep chewing your tobbacy, shootin' your helpless animals, and spouting your believe that the world is goin to hell in a handbasket.
 

Megan, that works too. I've had conversations with those people that made my head hurt. Circular logic is the province of no single group, apparently.

[smitty]

   You have no idea how shameful this is!  Stop mocking my pain!

[saxon75]

This is an excellent thread idea, Jake.

How would people feel about me taking some of these stories and re-posting them in a new section on the front page?  You could almost think of it like a contest: put your best people stories in this thread, and the best ones will go on the front page.  I would, of course, be sure to give credit to the original poster for the story.  And if you didn't want your story to be considered for front-page postage, you could just include a little "hands off" warning or something.

Granted, inclusion on the front page is no big thing.  In fact, it's almost certainly the case that more people would read it here than there.  But I want to have more content up front, and I love this idea.

[Jake]

I love that idea!

[Porter]

It’s because of our friendship with Israel that the US grew so quickly from 13 colonies to a continent spanning nation, and became so powerful in world affairs.

That's awesome.

[Jake]

Innit?

I think that this was my favorite part of the whole exchange, though:

Her: Muslims go to church too.
Me: No they don’t.
Her: Some of them do. 

[Icarus]

I managed to sneak out while they were discussing rounding up all the illegals in LA and shipping them back to Mexico.

Green Card?! Man, I don't need no stinkin' Green Card!

[Porter]

It was only recently that I learned that by some definitions church specifically referrsto Christian denominations.

I think that this was my favorite part of the whole exchange, though:

Her: Muslims go to church too.
Me: No they don’t.
Her: Some of them do. 

Pi Patel?

[Jake]

Huh?

[hawkin47]

Life of Pi. He studies Christianity, Islam, and Hindu, and believes them all.

[Jake]

Ah. I haven't seen that.

In any case, this person was very adamant that there was only one path to God. That was another topic of conversation for her this morning.

[Shader]

Or read it.

[Jake]

Is that by Alan Dean Foster?

[Shader]

Yann Martel

[Dro_Trebor]

There is only path to God, and all the signs are in English.

[Jake]

Yann Martel

Oh, I didn't know that he did movie novelizations.

[The Genuine]

 

[Jake]

I sometimes think that people like that exist only to balance out the opposite end of the spectrum. What would the opposite end be? I don't know. But they'd have to be as completely out of touch with reality as that woman was.

How about these people?

Or this guy.

[Bureaucrat Grade 39]

That's great Noemon. I clapped my head to my forehead about the second sentence, and then massaged my temples for the rest of the post.

Thick. I think that's the word.

[rivka]

It’s because of our friendship with Israel that the US grew so quickly from 13 colonies to a continent spanning nation, and became so powerful in world affairs.

That's awesome.

I wouldn't put it quite that way, but I don't disagree with the basic premise. (I disagree with cause and effect, though.)

[Dro_Trebor]

It’s because of our friendship with Israel that the US grew so quickly from 13 colonies to a continent spanning nation, and became so powerful in world affairs.

That's awesome.

I wouldn't put it quite that way, but I don't disagree with the basic premise. (I disagree with cause and effect, though.)

I'm having trouble parsing that.

The basic premise I got is that God favored America in the past because of our current support for Israel.

I could see changing that to be something like:
God has favored America in the current era because of our friendship with the State of Israel.


is that the premise you agree with?

Or is it more along the lines of:
America's concern for the well-being of Jews has earned us God's favor.


Or...
America's concern for just treatment of the oppressed is a factor in its success as a nation.



Or...
America's friendship with Israel has provided us with key strategic advantages in the region and internationally that have certainly benefited us, as well as our allies.



I'm just not sure where to go with identifying the "basic" premise of the earlier utterance.

[Porter]

It’s because of our friendship with Israel that the US grew so quickly from 13 colonies to a continent spanning nation, and became so powerful in world affairs.

That's awesome.

I wouldn't put it quite that way, but I don't disagree with the basic premise. (I disagree with cause and effect, though.)

I could say the same thing.

[Dro_Trebor]

It’s because of our friendship with Israel that the US grew so quickly from 13 colonies to a continent spanning nation, and became so powerful in world affairs.

That's awesome.

I wouldn't put it quite that way, but I don't disagree with the basic premise. (I disagree with cause and effect, though.)

I could say the same thing.

And I would have the same questions for you.  What do you think the "basic premise" is?

[JT]

My favorite part of the story is when she panders to Jake by saying, "I've studied a lot of religions".  That part tickled my irony bone greatly.

[Jenny Gardener]

Noemon's Person is no caricature - I live in a community of them.  I, on the other hand, am incomprehensible to just about everyone around.

[Kama]

you're all muslims. or is it muslems.

[Porter]

Here you go.

[Kama]

[rivka]

Bob, to me the basic premise is that part of why the US exists, at least in the form that it does, is because it is an ally to Israel. The state may not have existed back then, but look at some of the statements regarding the Jews by some of the founding fathers. Regardless, God plans ahead.

[katharina]

That's exactly like the belief I've heard all my life about how the U.S. exists, with the Bill of Rights and all, was to provide a (relatively) safe place for the gospel to be restored. Just about anywhere else and Joseph Smith would have probably been shot a great deal sooner.

How interesting.

[Dro_Trebor]

rivka,
Hmm...

I've seen some shockingly negative and some glowingly positive statements about "the jews" attributed to the founding fathers.  To which set are your referring?


kat,
I submit the words "exactly like" are incorrect there.

Unless G_d's planning is going to come as a huge surprise to EVERYONE*, I don't really think there's any but the most superficial way that both your sense and rivka's sense could be true and even compatible.



*which, by the way, is the outcome I'm most rooting for.

[katharina]

I think you overstate the differences, Bob.

If the United States could be created so it would be friendly to a state that appeared 150 years, it could have also been created so it would be friendly to a new religion within its borders.

The similarity is that both stories take the reach and influence and power of the modern United States and make it all about the group/people/religion telling the story.

[rivka]

I've seen some shockingly negative and some glowingly positive statements about "the jews" attributed to the founding fathers.  To which set are your referring?

No specific set. I am probably more likely to have seen the positive ones than the negative, I'd guess.

The similarity is that both stories take the reach and influence and power of the modern United States and make it all about the group/people/religion telling the story.

*shrug* I said "part" because I meant "part".

[Dro_Trebor]

The similarity is that both stories take the reach and influence and power of the modern United States and make it all about the group/people/religion telling the story.

Abstracted to that level, I'll agree that the two thoughts are somewhat similar.

It's certainly a different similarity than I thought you were going for.

I could still quibble over "exactly like" but, I think I get your meaning now.

[JT]

I heard that Jefferson created America to make it a safe haven for atheists.

[Bureaucrat Grade 39]

w00t!

I'm movin' there!

[Jake]

My favorite part of the story is when she panders to Jake by saying, "I've studied a lot of religions".  That part tickled my irony bone greatly.

I enjoyed the part where she clearly didn't know the name of the religion she spent a good bit of the dental cleaning railing against (there was lots of stuff that didn't make it into that post. A lot of it had to do with what a bad seed that Mohammad guy was).

[JT]

Totally.  I heard that guy hated Jesus. 

[Jake]

Yep.  And he was possessed by The Devil.  And he knew it, but his wife told him he'd better tell everybody that it was God, or nobody would follow him.  I know, because I learned it at the dentist.