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Author Topic: Minor things that make me irrationally angry  (Read 413467 times)

Jake

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11650 on: August 13, 2012, 09:40:26 am »
If the book's well written it ususally doesn't take long before I'm invested in all of the characters, and excited when I get to most of their chapters.
So which one of you wants "America in arms against to find places stick and" and which one wants "is an race itself continually new to and"?
Dagonee

Phil

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11651 on: August 13, 2012, 09:44:05 am »
When GRRM does it right (in the first 3 ASOAIF books) this technique is very effective for getting you to burn through chapters.  When a Tyrion chapter ends you are eager to read enough to get back to it, but by the time you do you're also eager to read Jon/Dany/Eddard/Arya/etc.   I read the first three books in record time because of it.  It helped that I was out of college and had not yet found employment.  Lots of reading time.

It does get less effective in books 4 and 5 when there are pacing issues.

SteveRogers

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11652 on: August 13, 2012, 09:44:33 am »
I suppose that's the crux of the matter.  It depends on how well written the cast of characters is and how smooth the transitions are. 

That was honestly one of the things which has caused me to take a break from A Game of Thrones.  It was well-written, but I couldn't seem to get invested in the story because of how often the point-of-view changed.

Edit:

Ironic.  Phil posts in praise of the point-of-view change in A Game of Thrones just as I do the opposite.
"Maybe Steve is a hot blonde in a tight red dress. How can we be sure? How can we be sure of anything about him anymore?" -Jonathon

"I accept that on a scale of one to pickle, this is firmly on the 'baby gherkin' end of the scale." - Teshi

Porter

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11653 on: August 13, 2012, 09:59:41 am »
Did David Eddings ever do that?  I thought his books usually followed a fairly tight group of characters.  Certainly not multiple pov.
I haven't read them since then, but I'm pretty sure he did that the the Mallorean.  The tight group of characters split up, and it kept jumping back and forth between their different storylines.

JT

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11654 on: August 13, 2012, 10:13:10 am »
I'm reading ASOIAF for the first time, and GRRM definitely does that a lot. There are so many POV characters that it's a bit much for me, but with a tale as giant as this one I can't think of another way to do it.
You should have seen me.  I was DEMOCRACY IN ACTION.  I picked up my ballot and said, "HELLS YEAH!!" and then when I stuffed it into the ballet box, I did it with so much panache and elan that I can't hardly wait for the novelization.

Shigosei

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11655 on: August 13, 2012, 10:20:28 am »
Really?  Do you guys generally dislike novels with more than one POV character?

No, not at all. Hence the irrational part ;) I know that the point of view switching is often necessary for parallel plotlines, which I do enjoy. Sometimes it's done with more disruption that really necessary, and it does feel a bit manipulative, as others have mentioned. Caliban's War, which I loved, is in fact what triggered this. I found myself wanting to skip chapters. I don't think that's something that's necessarily wrong with the book. It just drives me crazy while I'm reading.

Speaking of  Caliban's War, I think I found a typo. Should I try to notify Slash, or will there not be a chance to correct this in the future?

Jonathon

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11656 on: August 13, 2012, 11:49:25 am »
Forgive me if I've said this before, but I hate confirmation emails after I unsubscribe from email lists. I unsubscribed because I was tired of getting emails; I don't want another email telling me that I won't be getting any more emails.
"I AM A JERK IF I SAY I'M A JERK, OK." —saxon75

Dro_Trebor

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11657 on: August 13, 2012, 11:52:54 am »
The only thing I hate more is when they fail to unsubscribe me
It's a euphemism.

"Stop and smell the data."- Nate Silver

"I love the smell of confirmation bias in the morning."-Steve Rogers

Yes, but it's clever when I do it.  -Jake

SteveRogers

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11658 on: August 13, 2012, 11:53:50 am »
Forgive me if I've said this before, but I hate confirmation emails after I unsubscribe from email lists. I unsubscribed because I was tired of getting emails; I don't want another email telling me that I won't be getting any more emails.

That seems incredibly counter intuitive.  It's like they're calling out your name as you're walking away, only to pause and let you walk away.
"Maybe Steve is a hot blonde in a tight red dress. How can we be sure? How can we be sure of anything about him anymore?" -Jonathon

"I accept that on a scale of one to pickle, this is firmly on the 'baby gherkin' end of the scale." - Teshi

Dro_Trebor

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11659 on: August 13, 2012, 11:55:23 am »
Jonathan,

If you HAD said it before, I'd be irrationally angry at you right now.
It's a euphemism.

"Stop and smell the data."- Nate Silver

"I love the smell of confirmation bias in the morning."-Steve Rogers

Yes, but it's clever when I do it.  -Jake

Dagonee

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11660 on: August 13, 2012, 11:57:14 am »
It can help prevent being unsubscribed by someone else. I doubt it happens that much, but that's the (stated) reason for it.

JT

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11661 on: August 14, 2012, 09:13:40 pm »
When a beautifully timed and executed no limit poker all-in bluff works on four out of five players, and the girl who stays in because she doesn't know which hands beat which other hands catches a lucky river card and puts you out of the game.
You should have seen me.  I was DEMOCRACY IN ACTION.  I picked up my ballot and said, "HELLS YEAH!!" and then when I stuffed it into the ballet box, I did it with so much panache and elan that I can't hardly wait for the novelization.

The Genuine

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11662 on: August 14, 2012, 09:14:47 pm »
I think we all know you let her win.   ;)
Excuse me; I'm making perfect sense.  You're just not keeping up.

JT

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11663 on: August 14, 2012, 09:17:54 pm »
Definitely not.
You should have seen me.  I was DEMOCRACY IN ACTION.  I picked up my ballot and said, "HELLS YEAH!!" and then when I stuffed it into the ballet box, I did it with so much panache and elan that I can't hardly wait for the novelization.

Jake

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11664 on: August 15, 2012, 04:39:25 am »
In poker as in fencing, there is nothing more unpredictably dangerous than an untrained opponent.
So which one of you wants "America in arms against to find places stick and" and which one wants "is an race itself continually new to and"?
Dagonee

The Genuine

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11665 on: August 15, 2012, 07:04:59 am »
Nice job compounding the phallic metaphor …
Excuse me; I'm making perfect sense.  You're just not keeping up.

CT

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11666 on: August 15, 2012, 09:27:37 am »
Nice job compounding the phallic metaphor …

I cannot make the joke. I just cannot.

rivka

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11667 on: August 15, 2012, 09:33:36 am »
Therefore it is left as an exercise for the reader?
I'm now officially a licensed Texas crazy-person-driver.
--racingbird

CT

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11668 on: August 15, 2012, 09:35:20 am »
Indeed.


Stone_Wolf_

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11669 on: August 16, 2012, 09:52:29 am »
Minor things that make me irrationally angry...people who accelerate into a red light and get upset if you coast in.  The light is red.  Why is it important that you are the first person to slam on your brakes when you realize too late that which is obvious to the rest of us?
~For I have loved the stars too fondly to fear the night.~

Stone_Wolf_

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11670 on: August 16, 2012, 09:53:26 am »
In poker as in fencing, there is nothing more unpredictably dangerous than an untrained opponent.
Well said!  My wife is still upset with me to this day for referring to what she and her friend play as "girl poker".  Not that all females are untrained or unskilled.  But when there is giggling and the most common question is "Which two suits do you want to be wild?" at the table, it's a safe bet that the game being played is "girl poker".
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 09:57:35 am by Stone_Wolf_ »
~For I have loved the stars too fondly to fear the night.~

rivka

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11671 on: August 16, 2012, 09:54:18 am »
Minor things that make me irrationally angry...people who accelerate into a red light and get upset if you coast in.  The light is red.  Why is it important that you are the first person to slam on your brakes when you realize too late that which is obvious to the rest of us?
AMEN!

Also, accelerating and then rapidly decelerating puts more wear on tires and uses more gas, both of which are bad not only for my car (and pocketbook), but also for the environment.
I'm now officially a licensed Texas crazy-person-driver.
--racingbird

Dobie

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11672 on: August 16, 2012, 04:19:42 pm »
In poker as in fencing, there is nothing more unpredictably dangerous than an untrained opponent.
Well said!  My wife is still upset with me to this day for referring to what she and her friend play as "girl poker".  Not that all females are untrained or unskilled.  But when there is giggling and the most common question is "Which two suits do you want to be wild?" at the table, it's a safe bet that the game being played is "girl poker".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt-vqxchN_o

ElJay

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11673 on: August 16, 2012, 04:31:00 pm »
You know, you could call it "idiot poker" and be more accurate and less insulting.
"MY testicle story is awesome." -quis

JT

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11674 on: August 16, 2012, 04:34:15 pm »
It's less insulting to be called an idiot than a woman? Interesting.
You should have seen me.  I was DEMOCRACY IN ACTION.  I picked up my ballot and said, "HELLS YEAH!!" and then when I stuffed it into the ballet box, I did it with so much panache and elan that I can't hardly wait for the novelization.

Stone_Wolf_

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11675 on: August 16, 2012, 04:45:37 pm »
There is nothing -wrong- with girl poker...it's just a different beast then poker.  I tend to take my guns and poker very seriously, but girl poker is like air soft...more fun when drunk.
~For I have loved the stars too fondly to fear the night.~

ElJay

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11676 on: August 16, 2012, 04:48:46 pm »
It's less insulting to be called an idiot than a woman? Interesting.

It's insulting to fewer people. Calling it idiot poker would have insulted his wife and her friend. Calling it girl poker insults all women. Hence, idiot poker is overall less insulting.

No comment on how his wife would have taken it, of course.
"MY testicle story is awesome." -quis

Stone_Wolf_

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11677 on: August 16, 2012, 04:50:47 pm »
My wife is still offended I call it "girl poker"...and that was from before we were married.

I imagine if I had referred to it as "idiot poker" I might currently be a single man.
~For I have loved the stars too fondly to fear the night.~

Megan

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11678 on: August 16, 2012, 04:54:01 pm »
I'm with ElJay on this one. "Idiot poker" is insulting. "Girl poker" is insulting with the added bonus of being sexist.
Rather, if someone answers "What time is it?" with "Monkey Butt," I will seek more information.--Dag
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imogen

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11679 on: August 16, 2012, 04:56:22 pm »
Yeah, because in calling it girl poker you're not just calling the players girls - you're implying that all girls can't play poker properly.
If a camel is on you, you are probably living your last minutes. Good time to sing to God.  - Anna

Stone_Wolf_

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11680 on: August 16, 2012, 04:58:12 pm »
Ever seen little girls play poker...they have WAY more fun than anyone!

It isn't female poker, or women poker, it's girl poker...it isn't a shot at the whole gender, it's just an apt description.
~For I have loved the stars too fondly to fear the night.~

ElJay

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11681 on: August 16, 2012, 04:59:47 pm »
Dude, you are digging yourself way, way deeper.
"MY testicle story is awesome." -quis

Stone_Wolf_

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11682 on: August 16, 2012, 05:01:09 pm »
Happens.

I'm already married so, I get to do that.
~For I have loved the stars too fondly to fear the night.~

JT

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11683 on: August 16, 2012, 05:36:37 pm »
*laughs maniacally and runs away*
You should have seen me.  I was DEMOCRACY IN ACTION.  I picked up my ballot and said, "HELLS YEAH!!" and then when I stuffed it into the ballet box, I did it with so much panache and elan that I can't hardly wait for the novelization.

ElJay

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11684 on: August 16, 2012, 06:12:56 pm »
I guess it's true when they say there's someone for everyone!
"MY testicle story is awesome." -quis

TomDavidson

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11685 on: August 16, 2012, 06:23:11 pm »
I can only assume that Stone Wolf just gave us an example of "man posting."
Indeed, a flavored hell goes deep sea fishing with some tripod defined by another hole puncher.

saxon75

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11686 on: August 16, 2012, 07:21:41 pm »
I can only assume that Stone Wolf just gave us an example of "man posting."

Ha!

BlackBlade

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11687 on: August 16, 2012, 07:25:34 pm »
Oh my goodness, that was well played Tom.

I'm only guessing, and I'm not touching what "girl poker" is or is not, but I think Stone_Wolf was saying that that kind of poker would only happen when certain girls play it (and not a few of them), virtually never if it was guys.
I did too, because someone linked it and i'm easy like that. -Rivka

Stone_Wolf_

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11688 on: August 16, 2012, 09:46:43 pm »
Quote
Girly:
looking or behaving like a young girl
suitable for girls and women rather than boys or men

Quote
Manly:
typical of the way that a man is traditionally expected to behave, especially by being strong and brave

Man posting sounds very dirty.
~For I have loved the stars too fondly to fear the night.~

KarlEd

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11689 on: August 16, 2012, 10:23:17 pm »
Actually, it sounds kinda gay to me,

and I should know.  ;)
"Wishes and mathematics are both just things in our heads, but only one of them is immediately useful for getting to the moon." - Shigosei

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TomDavidson

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11690 on: August 17, 2012, 04:08:40 am »
You know how Asimov wrote that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent? On the Internet, where physical violence is not possible, it's dictionaries. :)
Indeed, a flavored hell goes deep sea fishing with some tripod defined by another hole puncher.

Stone_Wolf_

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11691 on: August 17, 2012, 09:00:36 am »
And here I thought it was jerkyness. ;)
~For I have loved the stars too fondly to fear the night.~

Rakeesh

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11692 on: August 17, 2012, 09:21:21 am »
*shrug* I don't believe it was intended that way, but looking at a behavior that is silly, inept, and contrary to good sense and then assigning a gender to it...yeah, the words are clearly sexist even if the intent isn't. I don't think it's an especially heinous example or anything, but then generally my sensitivity like nearly every human being's is lower to insults or criticisms of groups to which I don't belong.

Also, Tom, you made my nose sore when I read that with a mouthful of water and narrowly, partially avoided a milk incident, minus the milk.
"It's time to play everyone's favorite game, 'What's the Joker got in the pail?!'"

Stone_Wolf_

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11693 on: August 17, 2012, 09:46:21 am »
As usual you assign me negatives that go directly against my actual words.

"Girl" is not a gender, that would be female.  The word girl has youth as part of its definition. And the idea of youth indeed does have the ideas of silliness and ineptitude as a standard association.

"Girl poker" is only derogatory if one insists that there is one and only one legitimate way to play the game poker.
I enjoy girl poker, but very much prefer knowing ahead of time which version is being played.
~For I have loved the stars too fondly to fear the night.~

TomDavidson

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11694 on: August 17, 2012, 09:52:10 am »
*groan*
Just. Stop. Talking.
You are making it worse, and you do not even understand why you are making it worse.

I will explain to you why you are making it worse if you solemnly promise to me not to keep defending yourself. (This condition is placed here so that, after I explain it to you, you don't continue making it worse.)
Indeed, a flavored hell goes deep sea fishing with some tripod defined by another hole puncher.

ElJay

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11695 on: August 17, 2012, 09:52:50 am »
If that was true, you would call it youth poker or child poker or kid poker. Girl -- which does specify gender -- makes it problematic, especially since adult women are frequently referred to as girls in a condescending way, and since there are still cultural overtones of ineptitude assigned to females. That makes it so any labeling of something with a female gendered descriptor to indicate that it is silly and inept is loaded.

Further, you know that's true, since your wife is still not over it. And you are just yanking our chains.

ETA: Tom, he understands, he just doesn't empathize. He is coming from a position of male priviledge and having fun causing a kerfluffle. Similar to his musings in the gay rights thread.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 09:55:47 am by ElJay »
"MY testicle story is awesome." -quis

Stone_Wolf_

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11696 on: August 17, 2012, 09:58:35 am »
Kick rocks Tom.

Don't like my posts? Don't effing read them.

Jerk.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 10:13:51 am by Stone_Wolf_ »
~For I have loved the stars too fondly to fear the night.~

SteveRogers

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11697 on: August 17, 2012, 10:01:30 am »
Spoiler for Relevant:
"Maybe Steve is a hot blonde in a tight red dress. How can we be sure? How can we be sure of anything about him anymore?" -Jonathon

"I accept that on a scale of one to pickle, this is firmly on the 'baby gherkin' end of the scale." - Teshi

Rakeesh

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11698 on: August 17, 2012, 10:04:36 am »
I wasn't posting to you. Folks around here might know that I have a habit of chiming in on this particular subject, as I know I've done so many times in the past when it comes up. Sexism and other prejudices not consciously intended but nonetheless present are subjects I think are interesting. I'm posting about the topic, rather than discussing it with you. I take care to point that out not to be snarky, but only to be clear.

------

ElJay, it's interesting how sneaky the word 'girl' can be. Among men, being referred to as 'boy' can (outside the racial context, which is another thing entirely) often be considered a criticism. No word is the same for everyone, but in my experience the only time 'boy' will be viewed as a favorable word is when it's used in a clearly favorable way. "He's my boy," or variations thereof.

On the other hand, if someone said 'you pitch like a boy' to a 25 year old, chances are it won't be viewed as a compliment or anything but a remark on perceived incompetence. Whereas every single sporting reference to doing something 'like a girl' I can think of is clearly negative, unless it is coopted by actual female athletes. 'Hit like a girl', 'throw like a girl', 'run like a girl', all clearly bad. 'Women drivers', also bad. So on and so forth. In a culture so laden with gender-specific remarks of competence for men and incompetence for women, it seems obvious to me that if a woman hears an insult or criticism involving gender, she'll look to the conclusion that would be right in so many other cases, as of course it is in this one.

There's also another clear whiff here: that of the female as the giggling, whimsical, non-serious gender.
"It's time to play everyone's favorite game, 'What's the Joker got in the pail?!'"

ElJay

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Re: Minor things that make me irrationally angry
« Reply #11699 on: August 17, 2012, 10:06:20 am »
Stone Wolf, one of the rules at sake is that you can swear, but you can't swear at other members. Your last line qualifies. Normally I would just edit it myself, but since I'm involved in this conversation I'm instead going to ask you to do it. Of course, if one of the other mods comes along before you manage, they may do it as well. Please review the rules, they're in the second sticky thread on the forum.
"MY testicle story is awesome." -quis